BUSTED! Busting and consent

[kerrpop]

Came across this at Dan Savage's column (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/14085.Dan_Savage/blog). Basically, a former babysitter of this rich guy's kids is swindled into busting the guy's balls under the pretense of "self-defense training". Dan has to inform her that this is a kink, and that taking money for it is sex work. I almost admire the guy for pulling off a great ballbusting fantasy with the unwitting babysitter-textbook.

BUT, the gal had no idea this was a kink, or that she was participating in something sexual in nature. Even though she consented, and took money for it, she really didn't know what she was consenting to, and she definitely didn't know she was being underpaid!

So this poses a very interesting question: Ever been busted by a girl, who consented but who didn't realize fully what was going on? Is that really consent? Speaking for myself, rough play is part of sex so, either as foreplay or during sex. I think it's not truly consensual unless your partner knows you get off on it. I figure you all would have some interesting perspectives...

[stman]

It's a nice fantasy, and when I was a little kid I did things like that under the guise of self defense a couple times but I wouldn't do this now. I do think full consent is important, too many things can go wrong, plus potential hurt feelings if the other person figures it out. Guess it's just a respect thing. Oh, also it was difficult to hide the fact that I was getting off, and annoying to have to hide it, too. (Although loosely related, not 1 on 1, I still think I should volunteer as a women's self defense dummy lol..)

There's other ways of being busted without full consent that I don't think really matter at all. For example if I am roughhousing or playing around with a girl and she wants to hit me there, it's not like I'm going to say no. After all she's taking the initiative to hit my genitals :D

[drewLikesItInTheNads]

I feel like you don't need to tell her you get off on it. She knows exactly what she's doing, hitting your nuts. If you had a fetish for having your feet rubbed, I don't think you need to tell her. She's just rubbing your feet. She's doing what she's doing. What's going on in your head doesn't change anything. She knows there's some range of emotions that you might feel from it.

You CAN tell her, it might be polite. She can also ask if she wants to know. Obviously you'd be wrong to ask someone under the age of consent to kick your nuts, but if she's an adult, all that matters is she consents to that activity, whatever is going on in your mind isn't relevant to what she's consenting to. She's consenting to kicking you in the nuts, and can know there's some chance you might feel something sexual when she does it, and choose to either do it or not do it or ask you about it.

I'd say it maybe makes you a little weird and desperate to pretend to be learning self-defense or whatever. But legally and morally I don't think it's relevant what's going on in your mind.

[sunk]

Keep in mind some women might very well know that it is a fetish but pretend not to know as a sort of cover. There are actually a ton of women who like busting balls to some degree. :) Although a significant number are turned off a bit if they know the guy likes it.

Also remember the case of the martial arts instructor arrested a couple years ago for teaching "the tiger claw" to his female students where he made himself the subject upon which they practiced? It's very likely that many of the older women involved had an idea but still went along.

[Stu Chase]

So I train in TKD and kick boxing twice a week. Have done for years. If I spar with a girl, I will leave myself open for a groin shot.

I don't need consent, if she wants to do it she will. And we'll both enjoy it...right?

I did learn very early on that I needed protection when I do this. Some ladies seem to hit me there quite hard!

[mick_sl8ter]

So I train in TKD and kick boxing twice a week. Have done for years. If I spar with a girl, I will leave myself open for a groin shot.

I don't need consent, if she wants to do it she will. And we'll both enjoy it...right?

I did learn very early on that I needed protection when I do this. Some ladies seem to hit me there quite hard!

I am into another martial arts sport.
Of course during official matches you wear a protective cup over the groin area. But during training you change a lot of sparring partner and you do wear hand & foot gear and perhaps if you feel like it a mouth piece.
But nobody puts on a groin protecting cup, because the emphasis in this kind of sparring is on technique, controlling your body, reacting to your opponents movements, and certainly not trying to hurt your sparring partner.

Anyway back in highschool this guy he was my nemesis, when we had to fight each other, we would kick and punch as hard as we could and never give up. He was a year older than me, but we were in the same school, same martial arts club.
So was his slightly younger sister, she was quite sexy, nice long blond hair. And I was always flirting with her, and she kind of flirted back, of course he did not like it :D

So during training we switched sparring partners and I ended up with her.
She was one of the few girls and nobody considered sparring with a girl as challenging. Although she was quite good for a girl, I was still beating her with ease and I held back to give her the space to strike back.
I would make points by kicking her in the head (not hard of course).
And for sure she felt I was showing off by doing this and this made her more aggressive and eager to strike back.

I still don't know if it was an accident or she planned it, but when my leg was high, she kicked me under the belt hard in the groin. With the ball of her foot right on the tip of dick, really hard pressing against my body. And it hurt like hell.
I am so glad she did not nail my balls like that, because they might have popped !
I went to the ground and everybody was checking on me what happened. She was constantly laughing and apologized several times.
Weird enough, although I was in pain, I loved the fact that her foot touched my dick in such a way. And later on I have had sexual fantasies about her kicking me in the groin. Additional to the sexual fantasies I already had about her ;)

I was quite glad her brother my nemesis was not present that training.
But he had mentioned it several times later, how his sister kicked me in the groin.

After that incident the flirting with her increased, and she sometimes teased me, about kicking my balls. While in fact she only kicked my dick.

[drewLikesItInTheNads]

Keep in mind some women might very well know that it is a fetish but pretend not to know as a sort of cover. There are actually a ton of women who like busting balls to some degree. :) Although a significant number are turned off a bit if they know the guy likes it.

Also remember the case of the martial arts instructor arrested a couple years ago for teaching "the tiger claw" to his female students where he made himself the subject upon which they practiced? It's very likely that many of the older women involved had an idea but still went along.
I think all girls like busting balls, at least a little. It's funny that being turned on by it is like our defense mechanism.. not much we can do about it but enjoy it haha and that cuts into their advantage a little.

[kerrpop]

Is getting off on busting even sexual to where the "consenting adults" rule applies? Well, it can be, but that's when IMHO all parties are consenting, in the context of sexual play. A lot of what you're describing where consent is a little vague, seems more like flirting. Flirting is arousing, but hardly sexual, and not quite at the point where consent is given.

However, if you're paying a girl, she needs to consent and know what's up. Because it's sex work at that point, and she needs to be aware she is providing a service. As in the "tiger claw" example, hell yes that was wrong because those students were paying him! Was he prosecuted as a sex offender or just false advertising I wonder?

Plus isn't it better when she knows you're getting off, knows how to get you off and does it with the skill and desire that comes with that knowledge?

[drewLikesItInTheNads]

Plus isn't it better when she knows you're getting off, knows how to get you off and does it with the skill and desire that comes with that knowledge?
maybe part of the kink for him is that she's just roughing him up, not deliberately pleasuring him

[stman]

However, if you're paying a girl, she needs to consent and know what's up. Because it's sex work at that point, and she needs to be aware she is providing a service. As in the "tiger claw" example, hell yes that was wrong because those students were paying him! Was he prosecuted as a sex offender or just false advertising I wonder?

Plus isn't it better when she knows you're getting off, knows how to get you off and does it with the skill and desire that comes with that knowledge?

Agreed.

I see nothing wrong with being at a self defense dojo or roughousing and getting kicked when the topic comes up. Also if you've a fetish but still take your self defense training job seriously, act professionally and don't try to turn things into an erotic S and M session, cool. (As a side, I know people with medical fetishes who make fantastic medical workers.. but they do take it seriously of course). Anyway that's a far cry soliciting women to feel your junk or paying someone to get you off under the guise of self defense, (presumably alone and in private for extra creep factor). The former IMO is hilarious. The latter is the kind of thing that comes out in the media now and then and makes fetishists look like dirty old men, and feeds the stigma the rest of us face. Not saying I don't understand the temptation, I just think there's a line that guy in the Savage article crossed. Don't know enough about the tiger claw story, but sounds very suspicious.. I've often joked that I'd volunteer to be a self defense dummy, but even if I did, there'd be no real contact, it would be all in my head, so to speak because you wear pads. Did they actually touch him? If so, no wonder.

(edit looked it up. Yes, they actually touched him, and it wasn't older women either. The instructor had kids grab his genitals. He was prosecuted a sex offender)