Legal consequences of busting?

[cold8889]

Just curious here, hasn't happened to me or anyone I know and I'm more of a "fantasy" type person. Not much chance that I will go to a domme to get busted, maybe in the future if I ever get a wife.

Anyway. Say you go to get busted, do you need to sign some kind of contract saying the other is not responsible if you get injured?
What if you do get seriously injured? Can you take legal action if you have to sign a contract? I mean singing the contract is nice and all but you are going there for a ball busting session not a ball removing session.
Do you think she (or he if that's the way you go) should be prosecuted if you get seriously damaged?
Do you think it would hold up in court?

I think the biggest hurdle would be bringing the case forward. How embarassing can it be to tell the court "yeah.. so I went to get my balls busted and then ..."

[Tamakeri]

... Say you go to get busted, do you need to sign some kind of contract saying the other is not responsible if you get injured?
What if you do get seriously injured? Can you take legal action if you have to sign a contract? I mean singing the contract is nice and all but you are going there for a ball busting session not a ball removing session.
Do you think she (or he if that's the way you go) should be prosecuted if you get seriously damaged?
Do you think it would hold up in court?

I think the biggest hurdle would be bringing the case forward. How embarassing can it be to tell the court "yeah.. so I went to get my balls busted and then ..."

If you honestly believe you can go into a real ball-busting session without any risk of serious or permanent damage then you deserve to have your balls removed simply to remove your stupidity from the gene-pool.

Yes there is a risk, and you have absolutely no right to put that risk onto somebody else's shoulders when they are doing what you asked and/or paid them for. Whether you could win a lawsuit given that you signed a contract and liability release is going to depend on the judge, jury and the lawyers involved. At California Mean Girls when a guy comes in to model for us (or to participate in a personal video session) we go to great pains to make sure he is aware of the risks and takes responsibility for and consents to them and understands that he can "walk away" at any time. We make him sign papers to that effect and then have a video taped interview in which he states exactly what he is there for and what the possibilities of injury are and he fully acknowledges and accepts the responsibility. We also require full identification and we take photos of the ID and of him holding the ID next to his face. And we make him completely aware that we intend to lock that tape up for ever and nobody ever sees it UNLESS he starts some kind of injury lawsuit- at which time the judge, all lawyers, his wife and his employer will all get personal copies long before anybody actually sees the inside of a courtroom.

As far as whether the domme (or production company in our case) could face criminal charges, that is going to depend on not only what state/country jurisdiction you are in, but also how aggressive the district attorney is. Some DA's will prosecute cases for personal gain when there is no evidence and even no victim. Ask the Duke Rugby team about that. But if it's you against us, your name and intimate details are going to be in the newspapers and in front of your family, employer, and even the PTA showing exactly how consensual your "depraved" activity was.

Not to mention that for a lawsuit to make sense, whoever you are sueing would need to have some money. That pretty much rules out pro-domme's and ball-busting websites. This is a very small world here and not what people do to get rich.

[cold8889]

If you honestly believe you can go into a real ball-busting session without any risk of serious or permanent damage then you deserve to have your balls removed simply to remove your stupidity from the gene-pool.
I hope you don't think that I was implying that. I also use hope you were using the "you" in a broad sense, not specifically at me or any other single person. I am fully aware there are risks which is why I made this thread in the first place. But enough of that as it is straying from the original topic.


Yes there is a risk, and you have absolutely no right to put that risk onto somebody else's shoulders when they are doing what you asked and/or paid them for. Whether you could win a lawsuit given that you signed a contract and liability release is going to depend on the judge, jury and the lawyers involved. At California Mean Girls when a guy comes in to model for us (or to participate in a personal video session) we go to great pains to make sure he is aware of the risks and takes responsibility for and consents to them and understands that he can "walk away" at any time. We make him sign papers to that effect and then have a video taped interview in which he states exactly what he is there for and what the possibilities of injury are and he fully acknowledges and accepts the responsibility. We also require full identification and we take photos of the ID and of him holding the ID next to his face. And we make him completely aware that we intend to lock that tape up for ever and nobody ever sees it UNLESS he starts some kind of injury lawsuit- at which time the judge, all lawyers, his wife and his employer will all get personal copies long before anybody actually sees the inside of a courtroom.
Sorry if some of these questions may seem stupid to you, but I'm not familiar at all with the world of busting outside of watching videos on the net.
I assume things will be different from you guys since you are a company than a domme working alone or with a very small crew of maybe other dommes and cameraman.
Do your girls ahve any kind of rules to follow? I mean if the guy says stop, are the girls supposed to stop? Are they supposed to stop if they think it is going too far (damage is becoming possible)? I don't know much about your company but in other videos I have seen where the camera work was not top notch you owuld get an occasional peek at the backstage area where there were several people. So if things were to get out of hand or the girl not follow regulations it would be possible to stop. Whereas if you are working with a standalone domme working out of her garage, who knows if she does not turn out to be some psychotic bitch? Do you guys have some kind of background check for your girls? Surely you would not let in convicted criminals or ones with mental disorders?


As far as whether the domme (or production company in our case) could face criminal charges, that is going to depend on not only what state/country jurisdiction you are in, but also how aggressive the district attorney is. Some DA's will prosecute cases for personal gain when there is no evidence and even no victim. Ask the Duke Rugby team about that. But if it's you against us, your name and intimate details are going to be in the newspapers and in front of your family, employer, and even the PTA showing exactly how consensual your "depraved" activity was.
Yeah, that is why I said the biggest hurdle would be to bring yourself to actually do something. Is it worth it for the whole world to know of your obscure fetish and that you now have one nut, or no nuts, etc.



Not to mention that for a lawsuit to make sense, whoever you are sueing would need to have some money. That pretty much rules out pro-domme's and ball-busting websites. This is a very small world here and not what people do to get rich.
Well the kind of lawsuit I had in mind was not really the "$5,000,000 for pinching your finger on a pair of pliers that did not have a warning label." Although in a perfect world you would get more than just medical expenses since losing your genitals is very serious. But every case may be different. An injury may happen because the company was very incompetent and had very poor safety concerns, or the girl really turned out to be a lunatic. A case with a high dollar amount would be justifiable to put the company or domme out of business to prevent similar situations from happening again. If it was just a freak accident (all precautions taken, etc) and the girl did not intentionally cause harm putting them out of business should not be the objective.

[snack marvin]

First of all, you go to a domme or a hooker and you tell her what you want. You pay and probably you'll get what you paid for.
We are not talking about buying a car where you can sue the car dealer when the car is not as promised.

We are talking about sex business, and when not satisfied you won't get your money back. Furthermore, where is the evidence that this or that domme kicked or squeezed your balls? I don't think that the Sheriff's department will take fingerprints from your nutsack...

There's no proof at all... and the risk is yours. But... the most ladies won't have any interest in causing some permanent damage.

snack marvin


By the way: I don't know exactly the legal system in the U.S., but in my opinion it could be "unlawful" to inform the employer and send him very personal material. Specially when threatening to send those tapes to the employer if being sued, could be understood by the district attorney as blackmailing or coercion...

[BTerran]

I've heard of cases where unwilling participants have filed charges and won. Non-consensual ballbusting is more or less assault/battery and probably sexual assault too. So there'd have to be a waiver/consent forms involved if you want to guarantee legal protection. If you're talking about paying someone to do it to you though...well, I'm not 100% sure if that's legal anyways (probably depends on where you are).

[Tamakeri]

I hope you don't think that I was implying that. I also use hope you were using the "you" in a broad sense, not specifically at me or any other single person. I am fully aware there are risks which is why I made this thread in the first place. But enough of that as it is straying from the original topic.


I used "you" in the same way you used "you".



...
Do your girls ahve any kind of rules to follow?
...
Do you guys have some kind of background check for your girls? Surely you would not let in convicted criminals or ones with mental disorders?


Seriously we have don't have time, resources, legal rights or inclination to run criminal or mental health background checks. We interview the girls before we use them, we operate in a controlled environment, we don't use new girls with new guys (ever) and the bottom line is the guy is NOT being held down, tied up or otherwise immobilized. He can roll over, turn around, cover his crotch with his hands... whatever the hell he wants to prevent injury or further injury any time he wants. It really is completely his choice to be there at that time.



...
Although in a perfect world you would get more than just medical expenses since losing your genitals is very serious. But every case may be different. An injury may happen because the company was very incompetent and had very poor safety concerns, or the girl really turned out to be a lunatic. A case with a high dollar amount would be justifiable to put the company or domme out of business to prevent similar situations from happening again. If it was just a freak accident (all precautions taken, etc) and the girl did not intentionally cause harm putting them out of business should not be the objective.


Now you just aren't making sense. We are talking about somebody who intentionally indulges in an activity in order to stoke some personal sexual fetish. We aren't paying him to do this. This is a dangerous activity that he acknowledges can cause him grievous harm. He signs a contract and release that says he knows and understands that and is doing this voluntarily and takes ALL responsibility, and that he very specifically will and shall hold no one else responsible for any injuries he gets. Now, exactly what he intended happened- his nuts got hurt- but in this case, to a greater extent than he "thought" was going to happen- but NOT to any greater extent than he acknowedged COULD happen and that he wanted and took the responsibility for... and you are saying somebody else might be responsible and he should get "more than just medical expenses" because the company was very incompetent" ??? But unfortunately juries very often side (apparently as you would) WITH the guy who asked for the kick in the nuts even after he acknowledged that it was going to hurt and it might damage him. It's the politically correct answer after all. Side with the perceived underdog against the evil company regardless of little things like facts, agreements, contracts, and rational expectations. Realistically and unfortunately it's the way of the world and someday it may bite us, but as I said- you aren't going to get rich that way.

[Tamakeri]

...
By the way: I don't know exactly the legal system in the U.S., but in my opinion it could be "unlawful" to inform the employer and send him very personal material. Specially when threatening to send those tapes to the employer if being sued, could be understood by the district attorney as blackmailing or coercion...

It's simply a copy of a supposedly legally binding contract, and not covered by any kind of attorney-client priviledge or doctor-patient confidentiality.

Informing the would be "bustee" that you intend to make his contract public given certain possible future events (like a lawsuit) can't possibly be coercion or blackmail. After all- at that time (when you inform him) he hasn't signed the contract yet. There is nothing to extort. It's one of the grounds he agrees to when he signs. He has to sign before he gets his nuts busted, but he doesn't have to sign and agree at all. He can just scrap the idea, or go somewhere else where they don't make him sign silly little legal agreements.

Would actually sending it to his employer or wife in the case of a lawsuit be illegal or "blackmail"- once again, any politically motivated DA can make any case he wants to. The idea is that the original "threat" (if you can actually call it that)- applied before there was any contract at all- is enough to keep him from starting a frivolous lawsuit in the first place.

Yes- it would be playing dirty to actually do it- but he is already playing dirty by filing a lawsuit and attempting to take money from somebody who simply provided him the service he requested after he was fully informed and fully acknowledged and accepted the risks.

Let's just hope it never comes to that.

[Makarov]

So far, I'd say Tamakeri has provided an awesome professional viewpoint of the questions at hand. But, that's not stopping me from tossing in my two cents.

Let's create a simple scenario: there's you, and there's a domme named...Ophelia. No reason not to toss some Shakespeare in here. Ophelia has a web site, some clips on **********, but she's her own one woman company. She also happens to live in the same city as you, and does sessions. So, you call her up, arrange an appointment. You ask for no holds barred ball busting, and you pay for it. During the session, however, you pass out. Later on you discover that your left ball has cracked open, or perhaps both.

Can you do legal action? You can try. If a woman can sue McDonalds because she spilled coffee on yourself, you can try suing her for doing what you paid her to do. The question remains in your chances of success.

The prosecution, you, will try to pass responsibility onto the domme. She delivered the killing blow to your testicles, to say the least.

The defense, her, will try to convince the jury of several things. That you were rational at the time of paying for the session, and that you knew of the consequences.

As for which side the jury would swing too, I'd swing with the domme, rather than the guy that wanted to pay to get his balls busted.

So, let's say you win. You get your money, and now the public record knows you as being *********. Or, you lose, the public record knows you as being *********, and she counter sues you back.

[cold8889]

You guys seem to be missing the point. I did not mean you lose them as in everything is completely fine on the inside and outside, guy is not complainin then there is a kick and oops no more nuts (without the intention of actually removing it of course).

I am more referring to a scenario like the guy is saying stop, or there are obvious signs of damage or potential damage and the domme. either being caught up in the heat of the moment or whatever other reason there may be, does not stop and continues resulting in permanent injury.

I don't think any contract would say "domme has the right to get release her anger caused by her boyfriend by destroying my nuts." Contracts usually go two ways "domme will beat my nuts until I say stop or there are obvious signs of damage" not "domme can do any damn thing she wants and I have absolutely no say in it"

Also the point is not about the shame there would be in bringing the incident forward. That is pretty obvious and I made it clear I was aware of that in the original post. This is more about a "what if" kind of scenario where everything that is not directly related does not really matter much.

[Tamakeri]

Not to beat a dead horse here but...



...
I am more referring to a scenario like the guy is saying stop, or there are obvious signs of damage or potential damage and the domme. either being caught up in the heat of the moment or whatever other reason there may be, does not stop and continues resulting in permanent injury.

...
Contracts usually go two ways "domme will beat my nuts until I say stop or there are obvious signs of damage" not "domme can do any damn thing she wants and I have absolutely no say in it".

No they don't. I thought you knew nothing about ballbusting other than what you watch in free online forums. In fact, your exact words were "... I'm not familiar at all with the world of busting outside of watching videos on the net". Why are you now claiming you know what the contracts read? The contracts (releases) that I have signed in the past and that I have my models and clients sign don't say anything about "obvious signs of damage" or how she should know when to stop. Those things are so subjective and arbitrary that it would ridiculous to attempt to hold somebody to them. If those things were codified, a ball-busting session would be reduced to a glorified pillow-fight to make sure nobody missed any "obvious signs".

Typical dommes have "safewords" which are your red flag signal to terminate the session. Although that is a reasonable method to use, I have never seen those reduced to contract- that doesn't mean nobody does it- just that I haven't seen a release written that mentioned it. And your "obvious signs of damage" is ludicrous. Pain is typically the earliest and most obvious sign of damage. Is that when you want her to stop- when you say it hurts? When you let out a yelp? When they turn red? When they start to swell? When there is blood on the floor? At which point does she cross over from what you paid her to do and become a "lunatic"?




... This is more about a "what if" kind of scenario where everything that is not directly related does not really matter much.

Huh ? Sorry.. you lost me there.

[Jedi]

I was injured recently and finished up in hospital as result.
This was not the result of filming for my website but from asking a pro dom to kick my balls while we were both under the influence of alcohol at a fetish club. This was not a controlled enviroment and under the circumstances now relize that it was a pretty foolish thing to do. There is the possibility that under the circumstances the lady in question may have gone too far, or simply that was just stupid enough to stand there for about 10 minutes while my balls were kicked in by some really heavy, chunky boots. Whatever the outcome, I asked to be kicked in the first place and have always been fully aware of the risks and wouldn't dream of shouldering the blame elsewhere. You paricipate in these sort of activities you have to do it at your own risk.
Ultimately I beleive that if you ever went to a third party and complained that you have been injured, the realisation is that you asked for it so its your own fault.
Filming for Kinky Kicks we have save words and carefully monitor situations to ensure that everyone remains safe. But even then, if someone got injured (god forbid) I would expect the guy in question to think to himself, 'oh well, I knew the risks and have to accept the consequences!'

[moosh]

I think, as most people do, that if you pay for ballbusting and get injured you have no right to complain. It's like if you were to test some new drug and there were bad consequences, you knew that there was a chance of things going wrong, just because you didn't think it would actually happen doesn't mean you should sue.

But: I think (and I say think) the law might be different, I'm pretty sure you could get done for GBH or something even if the other person consented, no? It's like if someone wanted assisted suicide. No matter how many forms you sign to say you want someone to help you kill yourself, that person would still be screwed in court.

[zetsubou]

At the end of the day, damage to your balls, from a consensual ballbusting session is just as much your fault as the buster. Your paying for your balls to be busted. If you don't have a safeword, go elsewhere, but a safeword does not gurantee safety, very obviously. Its like boxing and expecting to not get hurt, and then sueing for head injury. CMG sounds like a fair way of doing things. Look for something like that. Don't expect gurantees, and if it eases your mind, wear some kind of protection. Or one up from that, only do it with someone you know and trust intimately.

[cold8889]

Not to beat a dead horse here but...



No they don't. I thought you knew nothing about ballbusting other than what you watch in free online forums. In fact, your exact words were "... I'm not familiar at all with the world of busting outside of watching videos on the net". Why are you now claiming you know what the contracts read? The contracts (releases) that I have signed in the past and that I have my models and clients sign don't say anything about "obvious signs of damage" or how she should know when to stop. Those things are so subjective and arbitrary that it would ridiculous to attempt to hold somebody to them. If those things were codified, a ball-busting session would be reduced to a glorified pillow-fight to make sure nobody missed any "obvious signs".

Typical dommes have "safewords" which are your red flag signal to terminate the session. Although that is a reasonable method to use, I have never seen those reduced to contract- that doesn't mean nobody does it- just that I haven't seen a release written that mentioned it. And your "obvious signs of damage" is ludicrous. Pain is typically the earliest and most obvious sign of damage. Is that when you want her to stop- when you say it hurts? When you let out a yelp? When they turn red? When they start to swell? When there is blood on the floor? At which point does she cross over from what you paid her to do and become a "lunatic"?




Huh ? Sorry.. you lost me there.

Why are you getting so defensive? I'm just asking harmless questions on a message board.
By contracts going two ways - "one party does one thing but the other party must keep up his end of the deal" I mean contracts in general, I was not referring to BB contracts. Poor word choice on my part I realize that.

My point is, should the girl/domme whatever you prefer to call it not try to use her judgement and see that things may be getting out of line? Of course not all injuries will be predictable, I said that before. But if you notice the sack is cut, or he is pissing out blood everywhere. Should the domme continue to assaul the guy just because her ass is covered by a contract or should she not realize it may be time to stop?
Like someone else said above (even though he did not agree with me in the end) that if you have a contract with someone for assisted suicide you are not free of blame because "oh he told me to do it." If my friend asks me to knock out all his teeth and a cop just happens to walk by, I am still assaulting my friend it doesn't matter that he asked me to do it. It is my decision to continue to the point of no return.

You guys are putting words in my mouth.




zetsubou- I was expecting someone making a connection with professional fighting. In pro fighting, it is a controlled environment. There are referees, there are doctors, there are rules. Sure the two guys have the ability to beat eachother within an inch of their life, but if it does happen there are people right there that can either stop the fight or treat the injured fighter.

I'm done with this topic now anyway. Obviously no one can get what I'm trying to say through their thick skulls and they think I expect ballbusting sessions with a girl wearing cushioned shoes, the guy wearing a cup, and 50 paramedics and surgeons with all the equipment ready to treat any injuries.

[jeff22]

hEY, HOW CAN i CONTACT CALIFORNIA MEAN GIRLS TO BUST MY BALLS?
i LIVE IN CA TOO. AND HOW MUCH DOES IT COST TO DO SEVERAL KICKS TO MY NUTS?
cAN YOU TELL ME.. THANK YOU

[Tamakeri]

hEY, HOW CAN i CONTACT CALIFORNIA MEAN GIRLS TO BUST MY BALLS?
i LIVE IN CA TOO. AND HOW MUCH DOES IT COST TO DO SEVERAL KICKS TO MY NUTS?
cAN YOU TELL ME.. THANK YOU

Replied by PM.

[tonyr]

Marvin, you're a RIOT. Pure CLASS!!!!:Baahaha: :Baahaha: :Baahaha: :D :thumbup


First of all, you go to a domme or a hooker and you tell her what you want. You pay and probably you'll get what you paid for.
We are not talking about buying a car where you can sue the car dealer when the car is not as promised.

We are talking about sex business, and when not satisfied you won't get your money back. Furthermore, where is the evidence that this or that domme kicked or squeezed your balls? I don't think that the Sheriff's department will take fingerprints from your nutsack...

There's no proof at all... and the risk is yours. But... the most ladies won't have any interest in causing some permanent damage.

snack marvin


By the way: I don't know exactly the legal system in the U.S., but in my opinion it could be "unlawful" to inform the employer and send him very personal material. Specially when threatening to send those tapes to the employer if being sued, could be understood by the district attorney as blackmailing or coercion...

[zetsubou]

I apologize then.

where is the proof that she continued after VISIBLE damage? You have to define this as there different levels of it too? i dont think your question has any simple answer, especially saying you don't really expect large safety precautions. Being a dom isn't something i know of their being licenses for, there isn't a stringent vetting process. I stick by what i said- someone you trust.

i suppose you could write down an agreement on safeword, and record the busting, so if it continues, after your saying it... but what of if your ***********... reality is your gonna have to trust the person doing it to not be a psychopath. i hope i was being less of an arse this post round

[snack marvin]

Marvin, you're a RIOT. Pure CLASS!!!!:Baahaha: :Baahaha: :Baahaha: :D :thumbup

Me? A riot...? ;) :D